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John Birch Society - Synchronicities?


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#1 watchman92

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 01:35 PM

I've been learning about the JBS and it appears as if they share many of J.R. Nyquist's original assertions, including the contention that the fall of Communism was false and planned.

I was wondering, are there people here who are members of the Society? I've never heard them spoken about here, and yet it seems as if they'd be valuable allies in combatting the communist scourge.

#2 Shawna11

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 02:30 PM

I tend to think not, because of the NWOism of Robert Welch and others:

Most conspiracy theorists have yet to suggest what discovery might lead them to change their mind. It is my observation that whatever future event occurs, whatever fact is discovered, their notions can be flexibly fitted to the occasion. If a politician rises, it is proof there is a conspiracy. If that same politician falls, it is also proof. If a president is assassinated, we see the hand of the Satanic cabal. If he survives assassination, he has come over the cabal's side. . .

Conspiracy theory, for Hitler, was a statement of faith - the furtive fallacy of those who cynically believe that history is a chronicle of nefarious dealings, plots and subterfuge; that all events are explicable by a reference to a common plot. In Hitler's case, it was a "Jewish-Masonic" conspiracy. For Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, conspiracy theory is due to the mysterious Illuminati. There are many amendments to the basic conspiratorial line.


from "Not All Conspiracy Theories are Created Equal" thread.

I'm not sure how active they are, anymore. Is the New American still being published? (I think that was the name of their magazine.) The local JBS bookstore in San Jose, CA closed years ago.

#3 UselessDissident

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 02:50 PM

I tend to think not, because of the NWOism of Robert Welch and others:

from "Not All Conspiracy Theories are Created Equal" thread.

I'm not sure how active they are, anymore. Is the New American still being published? (I think that was the name of their magazine.) The local JBS bookstore in San Jose, CA closed years ago.


I don't know anything about their NWO or Illuminati conspiracy theories, but I believe the mag. is still being published. William F. Jasper writes articles along the lines of Golitsyn theory, whatever his other beliefs are: http://www.google.co... ...=utf-8&aq=t
You are in a state of war and you have precious little time to save yourself. -Yuri Bezmenov

#4 Shawna11

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 03:09 PM

http://www.thenewamerican.com/

Yes, they're still alive and kicking. The two articles I just read seemed pretty sound.

#5 watchman92

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 04:10 PM

I know originally it was an organization dedicated to fighting the Communist invasion of America. They shared many beliefs that we have; that the Communists were infiltrating our schools, media and other cultural institutions.

I went to the JBS website, but there's no mention of this anywhere. I'm surprised with the apparent professionalism of their presentation that I never heard of them before. They appear to have good positions on issues and a slick presentation - I'm curious as to their apparent non-presence on the political scene.

Then again, researching their history, it appears as if the founders structured the Society into cell like structures, imitating Communist tactics. He did this due to the known infiltration tactics of the communists and claimed they were impossible to penetrate due to this practice. It makes me wonder if they are still around, just underground and covert although if that's the case, I don't see much being accomplished by them due to the state of affairs today.

From SourceWatch:

The Birch Society was organized into cells, imitating Welch's understanding of Communist organizing techniques. "This cell segregation is aimed at preventing infiltration by the 'Communists' or other groups seeking inside information about the society," the Times reported. "Ernest Brosang, the New Jersey regional coordinator, contends that it is virtually impossible for opponents of the society to penetrate its policy-making levels."



#6 bm_cali

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:04 PM

The JBS did more to discredit the Right than just about any other group.

#7 markolinux

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 04:41 PM

The rise of the John Birch Society at about the same time of the rise of modern conservatism (under the leadership of William Buckley Jr. and National Review) has at least one thing in common with modern day conservatism - and even with certain sentiments that are expressed by some on this forum - that contribute to the disunity and balkanization of conservatism.

The one thing in common that the JBS had with modern conservatives (and some here) is best expressed in several paragraphs from an article written about the history of the JBS:

Their formal foundation was in 1958, long after it was clear that the New Deal reorganization of the American polity was not going to be reversed by the Republican governance of that decade. Its leader was one Robert Welch, Jr., an erstwhile Massachusetts manufacturer who looked at the past quarter-century of statism’s march, and saw relentless conspiracy. He was not alone in his analysis: surely this sea change, counterintuitive and counter-American as it was, could never have succeeded simply by the will of the people. Surely it was not a function of the mere zeitgeist. Surely it was not coincidental. No: forces were at work. The Birchers meant to identify them.

And identify them they did. In the classic manner of the conspiracy-minded and the cultist, having arrived at the effect — which is to say, their own relentless marginalization by hidden forces — they set out to identify causes and agents. One obvious agent was international Communism. Fair enough: it had an objectively-verifiable existence, acknowledged by its own participants. Less obvious were the American agents of that agent: the secret Communists advancing the cause within our very nation. And here the Birchers went astray.

To paraphrase William F. Buckley on Welch himself, if an act advances the agenda of X, it does not follow that the actor is a conscious agent of X. The rejection of this common-sense premise underpinned the entire worldview of the Bircher movement. Welch himself betrayed the ridiculous conflation demanded by this mindset when he proclaimed that there were four types of persons in America: “Communists, Communist dupes or sympathizers, the uninformed who have yet to be awakened to the communist danger, and the ignorant.” Reasonable people understand that a dupe and a sympathizer are not the same in any meaningful sense. But the Birchers were not reasonable people. They saw the enemy everywhere outside of themselves — and as they did so, they parroted their perception of that enemy, to the point of organizing themselves in Communist-style localized cell-structures. This, they reasoned, would give the John Birch Society the same enduring resilience that their enemies surely had. And in the coming conflagration — often expected, never well-defined — it would provide the winning edge.

The ludicrous fallacy of this approach seems obvious enough. Methods have moral content. An end may have multiple means. An end for one actor may not be the same as an end for another. Et cetera.

In retrospect, it seems incredible that the Birchers would ever achieve prominence in any movement attracting the American mainstream. But remember that they, like the Bolsheviks before them (and in this, they were successful at emulating their enemies) had the advantage of organization in an otherwise disorganized movement. Trilling’s purveyors of “irritable mental gestures” were still coalescing, and the Birchers had true first-mover advantage. This meant they enjoyed an outsized prominence within that movement — and it meant that for a crucial period, they had no meaningful check on their excesses from within it. In the absence of any self-discipline, the John Birch Society went off the rails.

(Entire article can be found here).

In reference to William Buckley in the above quote, I think he felt it necessary, partially in an attempt to unify the base of conservatism and partially to expel from its ranks a strain of conservatism that held the seeds of its possible future destruction, to confront the Birchers in the pages of National Review. The wound received by this article and a subsequent one proved to be one that the JBS would never recover from.

WFB's first article, entitled "The Question Of Robert Welch," can be downloaded here. (PDF document)

The danger that we, in this forum, face, is to view the world as "we the few enlightened ones" vs. the rest of the "sheeple" - those who haven't been exposed to TFP theory. Indeed, I have seen some posters show nothing but derision toward those who would disagree with their particular take on the world and what is unfolding and how. It is this outlook that splintered the JBS'ers from the rest of the conservative movement. It can also divide us at a time when the need for unity is greatest.

None of us have things all figured out. All we have are educated guesses. Even Golitsyn's methodology for "guessing" was probably tainted by the very structure he defected from, since a characteristic of that structure was to compartmentalize information so that in essence the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. The thing about Golitsyn that makes him valuable is that he brought more than just information to us - he brought a method of "educated guessing" that was based on Soviet strategy, which isn't compartmentalized. The fact that the CIA accepted Nosenko over Golitsyn shows that even back then our intelligence services were information-centered, and not strategy-centered. That is why I think Whittaker Chambers was correct when he said that in leaving Communism for the West, he was joining the losing side.

It is my gut feeling that while unity is much needed among the ranks of those who would fight for freedom (even if they "don't get it" in regards to TFP), division is in the cards. Tea parties, disagreements about who the real enemy is, disenfranchisement, and other not-so-great disagreements are taken by the fifth columnists and magnified and distorted via various "active measures" (see JRN's latest column, "Understanding Subversion") in such a way that these divisions are widened and fortified to our enemy's maximum advantage.

#8 kulthur

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:29 PM

I think Nietzsche pointed out that the "will to a system" is a sign of weakness; he was refering to builders of philosophical systems, such as Schopenhauer, but the same point extends to politics just as much.

The Left is a philosophical-political system. The "Right" in this country, on the other hand, is simply the non-Left: we are the heirs of the English "muddilng through," in love with our traditions, individualistic and therefore open to evolution and the good, but skeptical toward demogogues and theories of radical improvement - particularly where the "improvement" is only defined as a way to destroy something traditional. This, of course, is the essence of the Left, which derives all of its purported philosophical coherence from moral, historical, and economic postulates which have little basis in any reality larger than the resentment and vengeance of its participants.

The real world is disorganized, sensitive to beauty, jealous and proud of its loves, and yet fluid according to the millions of proclivities of the individual human beings who live in it. It's a big mess. The Left believes it can "solve" this mess. But it isn't a "problem" susceptible to resolution: it is what is. And so the Left rages and organizes, and the non-Left muddle through and grow increasingly irritated with the g-dd-damn arrogant idiocy of the philosophical failures. And life goes on.

As for the JBS, that article is correct: they created their own fictitious organizing principle and made it all-explaining, all-powerful. This is the fundamental error that frustrates wisdom and leads to madness.

#9 bm_cali

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:23 AM

Kulthur, that is a beautifully written, succinct definition of Rightism.

Well done.

#10 Guest_ultimathule_*

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:34 AM

According to the Wikipedia entry on Yuri Bezmenov, he (Bezmenov) thought it possible that the Soviets may have shot down Korean Air Lines flight 007 to kill Larry McDonald (chairman of the John Birch Society). McDonald was certainly not shy about his views on communists/communism and was putting a lot of energy, time, and money into combatting it.

Not to appear overly paranoid, but...sometimes I wonder if the maligning & ridicule of the John Birch Society is similar to the widely-successful efforts to discredit McCarthy. While they may go beyond the conspiracy of an international communist long-range policy, they certainly seem to have been on the forefront of the battle against communism and communist infiltration in the USA.

Or maybe Bezmenov is just way off-base, and the plane was simply SOL due to its unfortunate straying into Soviet airspace... seems awfully lucky for them, though: to blow a 747 out of the sky, and the Chairman of the John Birch Society is on board (a known, influential, staunch anti-communist and US Congressman).

Here is an interesting link regarding KAL 007.

#11 Guest_Franklin Sousley_*

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 09:21 AM

"Not to appear overly paranoid, but...sometimes I wonder if the maligning & ridicule of the John Birch Society is similar to the widely-successful efforts to discredit McCarthy. While they may go beyond the conspiracy of an international communist long-range policy, they certainly seem to have been on the forefront of the battle against communism and communist infiltration in the USA."

Sadly, the John Birch Society leadership has a history of shooting themselves in the foot. The documented anti-semitism of current JBS President John McManus is the latest example.

#12 Engineer

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 07:56 PM

The rise of the John Birch Society at about the same time of the rise of modern conservatism (under the leadership of William Buckley Jr. and National Review) has at least one thing in common with modern day conservatism - and even with certain sentiments that are expressed by some on this forum - that contribute to the disunity and balkanization of conservatism.


Buckley started reading anyone out of the conservative movement anyone that was a threat to his strain of conservatism. While there were some positions of the JBS that were a bit crazy, on the whole, they were right. The main difference between the JBS and McCarthy were the people that vilified them. The JBS was vilified by the left, but Buckley also did so, and for two reasons. First they were gathering support in the early 60s, and that was a threat to his position in the conservative movement. Second, Buckley wanted to be respected by the left, a tendency that became more obvious in the mid-80s.

After the death of Welch, the JBS shot itself in the foot repeatedly. They seem to have gotten on more solid footing, but there has been some conflict in recent years. I think one faction has finally been put down, but you will find that the neo-Cons still vilify the JBS, and much of the criticism of the JBS is based on what happened after the death of Welch and very recent times.

TFP ideology is considered on the fringe by the mainstream politicos in this country. The JBS could be an ally. If you try to keep yourself "pure" and reject all possible allies simply because they don't adhere to your position in its entirety, you risk accomplishing absolutely nothing. In my opinion, the JBS has been so marginalized it will never recover. People like Buckley and Limbaugh have done there work well. If TFP sees times like the JBS had in the early 60s, you will find many of those same voices raised against you as well. It won't matter how right you are. McCarthy was proven right, but a fat lot of good it did him, or the country.

#13 timpanogas

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:48 PM

Buckley started reading anyone out of the conservative movement anyone that was a threat to his strain of conservatism. While there were some positions of the JBS that were a bit crazy, on the whole, they were right. The main difference between the JBS and McCarthy were the people that vilified them. The JBS was vilified by the left, but Buckley also did so, and for two reasons. First they were gathering support in the early 60s, and that was a threat to his position in the conservative movement. Second, Buckley wanted to be respected by the left, a tendency that became more obvious in the mid-80s.

After the death of Welch, the JBS shot itself in the foot repeatedly. They seem to have gotten on more solid footing, but there has been some conflict in recent years. I think one faction has finally been put down, but you will find that the neo-Cons still vilify the JBS, and much of the criticism of the JBS is based on what happened after the death of Welch and very recent times.

TFP ideology is considered on the fringe by the mainstream politicos in this country. The JBS could be an ally. If you try to keep yourself "pure" and reject all possible allies simply because they don't adhere to your position in its entirety, you risk accomplishing absolutely nothing. In my opinion, the JBS has been so marginalized it will never recover. People like Buckley and Limbaugh have done there work well. If TFP sees times like the JBS had in the early 60s, you will find many of those same voices raised against you as well. It won't matter how right you are. McCarthy was proven right, but a fat lot of good it did him, or the country.



I appreciate your excellent insights here Engineer. My experience has been that those who see many of the threats facing our nation and our beloved constitutional republic all to often focus on their differences rather than capitalizing on their similarities and their love of country and its founding principles. All the while the enemies of freedom from within our borders and outside our shores continue to plan and plot for the demise of this constitutional republic form of govt. and the founding principles that made America unique and blessed. United we stand; divided we fall. I fear our enemies are much more united in a common cause than are all those who profess a love for those founding principles upon which this nation was based upon.

#14 Hunter

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:59 AM

McCarthy unknowingly helped destroy the anti-communist movement. Certain factions within the JBS eventually consciously helped destroy it.

Whether either of my assertions are true I am still standing in a world that now accepts as normal that which both of the aforementioned fought against.

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 01:10 AM

I appreciate your excellent insights here Engineer. My experience has been that those who see many of the threats facing our nation and our beloved constitutional republic all to often focus on their differences rather than capitalizing on their similarities and their love of country and its founding principles. All the while the enemies of freedom from within our borders and outside our shores continue to plan and plot for the demise of this constitutional republic form of govt. and the founding principles that made America unique and blessed. United we stand; divided we fall. I fear our enemies are much more united in a common cause than are all those who profess a love for those founding principles upon which this nation was based upon.


Agreed.

In a world where communism is perceived as a "dead issue" and a non-threat, I find their [JBS] positions somewhat refreshing. Plenty of good people have "shot themselves in the foot" over time, but that doesn't mean they are loonies. Alan Keyes comes to mind.

The JBS might find conspirators under every globalist rock, but they certainly *do* perceive communism as an existing, serious threat.

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 01:16 AM

McCarthy unknowingly helped destroy the anti-communist movement.


Can you clarify that one? I don't see McCarthy unknowingly helping to destroy the anti-communist movement; I see him as out-gunned and smeared so successfully that his memory will probably never historically recover from it - though he was, as Engineer stated, proven right.

At any rate, I'm curious if anyone here checked out the link to the KAL 007 site, and what your thoughts are on the idea that there were (are?) survivors imprisoned in Russia.

#17 Apollo5600

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 04:02 AM

Come to think of it, in a popular game called 'Splinter Cell: Double Agent", the terrorists were a group with the initials JBS or JAS (John Adams Soviety?) or something quite similar. They were essentially a group of professional skin heads who wanted to smuggle in super nukes into the United States. Today I was watching one of the more recent 007 movies, and elements in the evil American security service were naturally a part of the plot to get rid of 007. (We wanted the oil in South America apparently.) One of these days the bad guys are going to be a terrorist group with the initials TFP, or maybe their leader will be a Mr. Golitsyn or JRNyquist. Our primary synchronicity is in the fact that any pro-Western activist will be painted as a potential domestic terrorist with "paranoid" political theologies.

#18 Hunter

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 09:41 AM

Can you clarify that one? I don't see McCarthy unknowingly helping to destroy the anti-communist movement; I see him as out-gunned and smeared so successfully that his memory will probably never historically recover from it - though he was, as Engineer stated, proven right.

I think it is obvious that McCarthy really believed in communist subversion—in fact, when he got started most of the people of the US did as well. Unfortunately, by the time McCarthy was censured by the Senate, he had all but destroyed the anti-communist movement as a result of his methods.

He went after thousands of so-called “subversives” including Truman who said McCarthy was “not fit to have a hand in the US Government”. He also went after the US Army and put it on display for the people to see—it was then that most of his political clout was taken from him as his line of questioning was absurd and clearly dishonest.

His original bogus list of 205 communist subversives in government was proven bunk; although there is no doubt there were communists working in the government, it was pretty clear his list was merely intended to sensationalize his agenda.

People here are saying he was proven right—on the contrary, he was proven wrong almost 100% of the time. Was [is] there communist influence in the US—absolutely, but McCarthy was thought to go so far as to doctor photos, make up letters, and go after political enemies with his ISS. Eventually, McCarthy’s glass house came tumbling down around him and with it came a new “tolerance” of communist speech in America.

#19 SJL

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 06:38 PM

As far as I know JRN wrote a convincing piece regarding the doubtfulness of JBS. JBS seemed to start off well but then went completely astray when there was a shuffle in the leadership.

Some of them either started being infiltrated, or had some weird "mein kampf" type issues - along with embracing conspiracy theories.

What is clear is that they started attacking everyone, including Eisenhower and calling him a communist agent etc...

I do not have experience with JBS but with other right wing outfits falling to similar fates. Right wing "salons" tend to be convinced of their unconvictedness. This leads them to make some serious ideology or history revisionist mistakes. I remember arguing with one of them after watching the movie 300, specifying that in reality, upon reading the Bible, King Xerxes was not such a bad guy. (When facing the facts as Daniel showed, he clearly repented, worshiped God and cleared his place of traitors and bad advisors.) Instead of viewing the fight of Spartans against Xerxes as a tragedy of hubris pitting 2 civilizations which could have integrated in mutualy enriching exchanges of good and lasting traditions, he insisted of viewing it as a sort of fight between inferior and superior men that the Spartans helped win.

Ironically the communists do not frontally attack these right wingers but seem to encourage their persecuting of others who disagree or who seem to show kinks in their world view of things. Add to that their making of history innacuracies, and it completely discredits them to the moderates or various groups implied.

A left wing circle will convince itself that its weaknesses are "natural" and should not bring conviction. A right wing circle will convince itself of its inherent strength and feelings of being above being convicted under any circumstances. It really is two sides of the same coin. The latter has been in limbo ever since the grotesque acts of Hitler and has basically lost the war. They live underground mainly and secretly, imo. Communists do not denounce them because they actually help them persecute a clear headed Constitution based type "balance of powers" thinking American. Moreover they have unexplored socialist tendencies which invariably makes them liable to become disillusioned as they age and turn completely liberal, or, if not, communist ultimately.

JBS seem to have fallen similarly for "right wing" indigenous fantasies. They also have been easily infiltrated by communists who have advised them in organization and rigidity, giving them confrontational type advice a communist would never undertake himself lest his influence and infiltration cover would be blown into political suicide.

#20 goodcomdeadcom

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 07:09 PM

Greetings, and God bless.

Hello, Hunter.

"...People here are saying he was proven right—on the contrary, he was proven wrong almost 100% of the time. Was [is] there communist influence in the US—absolutely, but McCarthy was thought to go so far as to doctor photos, make up letters, and go after political enemies with his ISS. Eventually, McCarthy’s glass house came tumbling down around him and with it came a new “tolerance” of communist speech in America.


Not so much related to the JBS I guess, but here's some alternative reality.

http://www.anncoulte...cgi?article=219

Strongly recommend the book Ann Coulter is reviewing here. It clears up the virtual reality myth that the left has built around McCarthy. One example:

"His original bogus list of 205 communist subversives in government was proven bunk;..."


That was merely a list of people McCarthy wanted the investigation to have a look at, not people that he had declared to be subversives. The Senators who were opposing him trumpeted all over the media that these were all innocent people that McCarthy was persecuting. The media of course treated it as fact.

There's more. Much more. McCarthy was right. Get the book.
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