Game changing new thruster? Options

[pizzaman]

I put a question mark in the topic title for a couple of reasons.
First, because we don't know if the thruster even works (or might work with enough research/testing)
Second, because I'm thinking this could be a major game changer if it is developed fast enough.

I decided to start this as it's own topic because of it's game changing potential and because it would cross over into many threads if I put it on all the 'war prep' threads for each nation.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/10/im...ealth-missiles/

Impossible’ Device Could Propel Flying Cars, Stealth Missiles

The Emdrive is an electromagnetic drive that would generate thrust from a closed system — “impossible” say some experts.

To critics, it’s flat-out junk science, not even worth thinking about. But its inventor, Roger Shawyer, has doggedly continued his work. As Danger Room reported last year, Chinese scientists claimed to validate his math and were building their own version.

Shawyer gave a presentation earlier this week on the Emdrive’s progress at the CEAS 2009 European Air & Space Conference. It answered few questions, but hinted at how the Emdrive might transform spaceflight — and warfare. If the technology works, that is.

The heart of the Emdrive is a resonant, tapered cavity filled with microwaves. According to Shawyer, a relativistic effect generates a net thrust, an effect confirmed by various Emdrives he has built as demonstrations. Critics say that any thrust from the drive must come from another source. Shawyer is adamant that the measured thrust is not caused by other factors.

While the argument over the drive’s impossibility continues, so does the engineering work. The problem is that nobody wants to talk about it. Even Shawyer gives little away.

Last year, professor Yang Juan of the College of Astronautics at Northwestern Polytechnical University (NPU) in Xi’an was happy to confirm that they were building an Emdrive which would be tested by the end of the year. But following the publication of this news in Danger Room, the situation changed. I was informed that the publicity was very unwelcome, especially any suggestion that there might be a military application. (Yang had previous published a study on the use of plasma as a weapon against low-orbiting satellites. [.pdf]) No further information has been forthcoming, and no Chinese papers have been published on the Emdrive, though Yang has recently published work on (unrelated) microwave plasma thrusters (.pdf).

Shawyer asserts that work is also being carried out in France, Russia and in the United States by a major aerospace company. But he cannot provide details beyond vague promises of “significant progress [that] has been made in both theoretical and experimental work, within these groups.” He also asserts that the British National Space Centre is said to be reviewing the Emdrive. Again, no details.

The CEAS 2009 paper outlines recent progress and plans. Previous thrusters generated relatively modest forces; the latest version now being built is based on a cooled superconductor and should generate more than 300 pounds of thrust for a 6-kilowatt input, Shawyer promises. (But does not yet appear to have done so.) The plan is to mount four of these thrusters on an unmanned demonstration vehicle that will weigh about 1,000 pounds. The craft will have no wings: It will be supported by the Emdrives and propelled by jet engines to about 230 knots. It will be capable of vertical takeoff and hovering silently in place. If successful, it will be adapted as a personal transport -– your very own flying car.

In the longer run, perhaps 10 years, Shawyer envisages a hybrid spaceplane using Emdrive technology — see the photo above of a 2-meter scale model. The idea is a craft capable of making the 10,000-mile run from London to Sydney, Australia in under three hours … or taking a 40-ton payload on the moon in about four days.

Aeronautical engineers have been dreaming of such a craft for decades; none have ever panned out. The theoretical advantage of the Emdrive spaceplane compared to rockets is that it allows a slow ascent with low acceleration rate. There is also no telltale rocket exhaust plume, and this may be the source of some of the interest. At present, the launch of a ballistic missile anywhere on Earth can be immediately spotted from space. An Emdrive-based launch system would be undetectable and could arrive from any direction, leaving the target of an attack no way of knowing who to retaliate against.

This is the kind of factor that might drive governments to put money into Emdrive projects. An investment in contested science is not a probable winner — but the payoff could be a big one.

[bm_cali]

Sure you could create a linear induction motor that would use the Earth's and Sun's magnetic fields as its "rail" but imagine the energy you'd need to generate the field on the vehicle side.

Reminds me of the ethanol scam, more energy required to create the energy source than the source will provide.

[SJL]

Sure you could create a linear induction motor that would use the Earth's and Sun's magnetic fields as its "rail" but imagine the energy you'd need to generate the field on the vehicle side.

Reminds me of the ethanol scam, more energy required to create the energy source than the source will provide.

Interesting, it would be like a magnetic spring whose increase in tension would result in higher potential energy. Could convert that into a mighty gun if used in bursts.

I'm not sure what they mean by relativistic effects other than the doppler compression effect. In aeronautics the doppler effect and speed of sound are related similarly. Once the wave hits an object it curves around. Take that rotational momentum around a wing and redress it into a straight line with a tail moment and you get lift. If we could find a way to bend light with "EM wings", then one could technicaly develop thrusters thus.

[watchman92]

Interesting, it would be like a magnetic spring whose increase in tension would result in higher potential energy. Could convert that into a mighty gun if used in bursts.

I'm not sure what they mean by relativistic effects other than the doppler compression effect. In aeronautics the doppler effect and speed of sound are related similarly. Once the wave hits an object it curves around. Take that rotational momentum around a wing and redress it into a straight line with a tail moment and you get lift. If we could find a way to bend light with "EM wings", then one could technicaly develop thrusters thus.

Yeah, I don't get that either. He's saying since the microwaves are moving at the speed of light and hitting the inside of the cavity, THEY'RE not actually moving - the cavity is moving 'relative' to the waves. Seems kind of convoluted, but whatever, if they can make it work, great. It would also have huge weapon potential if true, but that's a ways away.