443 replies to this topic

[907ie]

From JR's latest, "Russia Transformed".

"Yet something has changed in Russia. The totalitarian structures that remained after 1991 have suffered a blow. Perhaps even a fatal blow. The year 2011 has been remarkable in terms of revolutionary changes affecting a number of countries within the old totalitarian bloc, especially Libya and Syria. The most important country within the bloc has always been Russia. And now Russia’s people have begun to mass in the streets. Perhaps there is room for optimism."

Optimism?, I respectfuly disagree, Jeff.
It just shows how "big" the enemy has become.
The people, irrelevant actually, will be "used".

The threat has evolved. Grey Terror accelerating, Red Terror is very close, the way I read it.

[Apollo5600]

I tend to think that the Totalitarian structures in Russia would have safety measures against this kind of development.It will be hard to tell the difference between a real dissident and a false dissident, and the Russkies will likely combine it with some other distraction if things get serious enough. Maybe another apartment bombing, or perhaps a serious war.

[markolinux]

Not all is set in stone, regarding the Kremlin's plans. Sometimes, the worst of plans still fail due to unseen workings, either Providentially, or accidentally. History is full of surprises, even though it never surprises it's Author. Sometimes, the smallest of lights can turn aside a great darkness. This is one of the themes of "The Lord of the Rings", which I thoroughly enjoy reading from time to time.

I am conflicted regarding the coming darkness - will it be a physical, all-out war, East vs. West, or is there a large conflict coming that is more in the spiritual realm? Perhaps a bit of both. Lately I've been focusing more on the spiritual battle approaching. And let me tell you, the tool of Deception is every bit as much a part of that battle as is the one with Russia and friends.

[WmWallace]

907ie, on 14 December 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

From JR's latest, "Russia Transformed".

"Yet something has changed in Russia. The totalitarian structures that remained after 1991 have suffered a blow. Perhaps even a fatal blow. The year 2011 has been remarkable in terms of revolutionary changes affecting a number of countries within the old totalitarian bloc, especially Libya and Syria. The most important country within the bloc has always been Russia. And now Russia’s people have begun to mass in the streets. Perhaps there is room for optimism."

Optimism?, I respectfuly disagree, Jeff.
It just shows how "big" the enemy has become.
The people, irrelevant actually, will be "used".

The threat has evolved. Grey Terror accelerating, Red Terror is very close, the way I read it.

I likewise am dubious about optimism based on the outpouring of protestors in Russia. Such has been used in the past to show fake strife/opposition. The Ace of Spades in this whole development that leads me to think that the recent "turmoil" in domestic Russia is the fact that Gorbachev himself came out forcefully and publically against Putin. Now doesn't that sound a very loud and clear peal that this current "division" within the totalitarian structures is nothing more than new lies for old? Moreover, as is well understood, Putin is just the figure head of the totalitarian structures and could always use Putin's "ousted by the people" departure to their keen advantage...as always. Is the totalitarian structures within merely going to now fold decades-long strategic deceptions, jointly developed with China & many other enemy nations, merely because the people have spoken?! Such a notion would totally boggle my mind. I can't believe such.

[907ie]

Well, you can't make this stuff up. What happens next will be particularly illuminating is my guess.
This is all part of the deception, political divisions in Russia, particularly among the Mil and Security services, can be very useful from a standpoint of final war preparations.
It may be that their timetable has reached a point of dependence, dependence on the Pacific Tsunami, the New Madrid Fault, an incoming CME, or other natural event, HARRP induced or not.
Is this not crazy thinking?
The political game can be played out to infinity, the war game only once, you either get it right (or dang near to it) or you don't. No second chances, it must be a "all in" event.
Somehow, I have trouble believing they are there, scary isn't it?

[WmWallace]

Here's a perfect example of how the protests in Russia can be used to disguise/explain-away beligerance toward the West without sending off alarms thY might otherwise sound; the beligerence explained away as merely for "domestic consumption," not as a lead-up to war:

http://www.telegraph...g-protests.html

I don't think we should be fooled by current domestic events in Russia. Granted, all human plans are prone to have failures, but the decades-long struggle was not undertaken lightly nor will it be given-up lightly.

They have us by the short hairs - why let go at THIS point?!

(pls excuse my text errors - am using an un-smart phone.)

[Apollo5600]

WmWallace, on 15 December 2011 - 10:01 AM, said:

I likewise am dubious about optimism based on the outpouring of protestors in Russia. Such has been used in the past to show fake strife/opposition. The Ace of Spades in this whole development that leads me to think that the recent "turmoil" in domestic Russia is the fact that Gorbachev himself came out forcefully and publically against Putin. Now doesn't that sound a very loud and clear peal that this current "division" within the totalitarian structures is nothing more than new lies for old? Moreover, as is well understood, Putin is just the figure head of the totalitarian structures and could always use Putin's "ousted by the people" departure to their keen advantage...as always. Is the totalitarian structures within merely going to now fold decades-long strategic deceptions, jointly developed with China & many other enemy nations, merely because the people have spoken?! Such a notion would totally boggle my mind. I can't believe such.

Hmmm yes, I recall reading that some time ago before the recent hubbub. It seems they're perfectly okay with throwing Putin overboard at this point. In that book I'm reading, "I led 3 Lives", Herbert wrote that the 'Chairman' of a communist group is never as important as he seems. They also have no problem making a deal with a party boss to sacrifice himself for a change in the system. Putin will be torn down politically, will leave in apparent disgrace, and will probably retire comfortably until his memory is rehabilitated later after their shift of policy is complete. Any manner of extreme deception goes for the sake of manipulating opinion. It's all fraudulent, pre-planned, artificial struggles.

The question is who will be the new face of the party, and what will be the goal of this face? Are they expecting an economic collapse? Are they preparing themselves to take advantage of this?

[Bard]

And yet the military build up continues. Nyquist said that allowing the people to play at freedom to long engenders a genuine bourgeoisie. Nyquist previously stated that Russia had 2 choices in the future, either institute genuine reforms or crack down on dissent. He's presented a third option- ignore the protests until they loose steam.

So let the people have their protest. In the West they'll be saying "those protests would have never been allowed before the collapse, Russia might even be ready to oust the Putin regime".

Does real democracy really have chance in Russia? If the regime was threatened with violent protests, they would have put it down. They certainly saw this coming.Nyquist said that as soon as the missiles start to fly the Russian people, hatred for the regime aside, will have to support the leadership or die.What do these protests do to change the military balance between Russia and the US?

[Rocky]

It is indeed so hard to trust anything that happens in Russia. My first thoughts were that Russia wants the world to see that Russia is no different than other nations whose people want change. We applied that idea to the "terrorist attacks" in Russia leading to the perception that if Russia is also being attacked by Islam than Russia cannot be involved in Muslim jihad. So the thinking goes, since Russia is being attacked then they obviously cannot have anything to do with terror attacks that happen in the USA since they are victims themselves.

Could we apply the same thinking to these protests? Some suspect that the protests and occupy movement is fomented by communists specifically Russia. BUT if Russia is also having its own protests then Russia can't be considered as 'behind' the protests in the USA.

But wait. Maybe JRN is on to something. Maybe we are too paranoid. Maybe the people of Russia are tired of their communist commandos. Maybe the protests in Russia are not programmed to throw us off the trail. Maybe there is reason for optimism. I think I'll stay open to that possibility. It's a small window that is open, but it is open and it'll stay open as long as JRN is open to that potentiality.

[907ie]

Rocky, you and JR are probably right. I'm sure the people of Russia are tired of their bastard rulers.
We here in the USA are too! The fact that we are still here is optimism itself.
But have the Communists hijacked the protests or not? In Russia or not? Is it real? Or not?
I say they have at least "directed" the protests, they will stay small, and they will be ignored.
It's what I would do.

[Rocky]

907ie, on 18 December 2011 - 02:12 PM, said:

Rocky, you and JR are probably right. I'm sure the people of Russia are tired of their bastard rulers.
We here in the USA are too! The fact that we are still here is optimism itself.
But have the Communists hijacked the protests or not? In Russia or not? Is it real? Or not?
I say they have at least "directed" the protests, they will stay small, and they will be ignored.
It's what I would do.

One of the things the protest in Russia accomplishes is that it flushes out of hiding the enemies of the state who see the potential for a revolution. Does the billionaire who wants to run against Putin really have a chance? How can a man that rich and that smart oppose the totalitarians in power? Unless of course he is a plant set up by the govt to provide the uprisers with a leader who can channel their anger.

The only way I'll believe a real revolution is happening in Russia will be when I see a lot of blood and a lot of death...

[WmWallace]

Rocky, on 18 December 2011 - 04:52 AM, said:

It is indeed so hard to trust anything that happens in Russia. My first thoughts were that Russia wants the world to see that Russia is no different than other nations whose people want change. We applied that idea to the "terrorist attacks" in Russia leading to the perception that if Russia is also being attacked by Islam than Russia cannot be involved in Muslim jihad. So the thinking goes, since Russia is being attacked then they obviously cannot have anything to do with terror attacks that happen in the USA since they are victims themselves.

Could we apply the same thinking to these protests? Some suspect that the protests and occupy movement is fomented by communists specifically Russia. BUT if Russia is also having its own protests then Russia can't be considered as 'behind' the protests in the USA.

But wait. Maybe JRN is on to something. Maybe we are too paranoid. Maybe the people of Russia are tired of their communist commandos. Maybe the protests in Russia are not programmed to throw us off the trail. Maybe there is reason for optimism. I think I'll stay open to that possibility. It's a small window that is open, but it is open and it'll stay open as long as JRN is open to that potentiality.

My thinking was the sane as yours in the first two paragraphs. But, then I thought, what about the fact that Gorbachev himself publically spoke out against Putin? The usher of the final phase himself steps up on stage and throws Putin under the bus! It's GOT to be contrived, a kabuki play. This one main fact leaves me decidedly in the camp that this is just another Potemkin Village facade.

New lies for old!

[WmWallace]

http://edition.cnn.c...ests/index.html

GORBACHEV CALLS FOR NEW RUSSIAN ELECTIONS

(An excerpt follows):

Moscow (CNN) -- Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet leader, called Wednesday for new parliamentary elections in Russia over concerns about vote fraud.

"Mikhail Gorbachev is very concerned about how the situation in Russia is developing," spokesman Pavel Palezhchenko told CNN. "People don't believe that the will of the people is reflected in the results."

He confirmed a report by the Russian news agency Interfax, which quoted the former Communist party general secretary as saying the elections were unfair and new elections were needed.

[WmWallace]

This narrative was being played (a play) out even before the election with Gorbachev forecasting an unfair election.

Now how on earth can we think for a second that any of this is legit.

New lies for old!
Same fake splits.

It seems obvious that there's an agenda behind all this.

___
(How interesting that Gorbachev grants the Wall Street Journal this interview, huh?)

http://www.newsmax.c...11/24/id/419066

Gorbachev Warns Putin's 'Authoritarian' Party Rigging Elections

BERLIN—Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev says Russia's upcoming elections won't be fair, and he blasted the "authoritarian" rule of Vladimir Putin in Russia in a Wall Street Journal interview.

Gorbachev told the Journal Tuesday that he believed an authoritarian government was necessary to pull Russia together in 2000 when Putin first came to power. At the time, he brushed off concerns from a French colleague that Putin would "make a habit" of such tactics.

The Kremlin's "habit" of authoritarianism is now "a very dangerous thing," he said.
Now "we in Russia are forced to seriously struggle to strengthen democracy, ensure honest elections, the independence of the judiciary and many other things," Gorbachev said.

Putin's United Russia party is virtually certain to win parliamentary elections in December, and Putin plans to return to the presidency in 2012 elections. Gorbachev says both the official turnout and the final election results will be determined ahead of the vote. "The elections will not be fair," Gorbachev says.

Gorbachev has told reporters that democracy must be built from within the nation, without interference from foreign powers.

© Newsmax. All rights reserved.

___
p.s. The WSJ link at the above Newsmax article takes you to the interview, but it can't be accessed unless you have a subscription. However, there is some interesting commentary accessible by clicking the tab & scrolling down to view all comments (you have to look carefully for that "see all comments" link): http://online.wsj.co...leTabs_comments

[WmWallace]

You know I try to keep my mind open, too, and protect against developing a paranoid mindset about developments in the world re TFP. In fact I'm often battling others NWO, Truther, etc., beliefs and find it exasperating because of their dogged blinders where they see only black swans, never white ones.

That last ref was re Jeff's classic article from a number of years ago (and can be found in a thread here in its entirety) titled, "Conspiracy Theories Are Not All Created Equal."

The bottom line of that piece from my view was that your conspiracy theory is mere paranoid circular logic if you can not conceive of anything/circumstances/facts that could prove your theory invalid or false - falsifiable.

In the instant case with what I believe is just another in a long line of deceptions going on, had there been no involvement by Gorbachev and circumstances had seemed to develop organically without the big name players, then I would look at this all differently and accept as a possibility what Jeff suggests in his latest article. But, circumstances as they have unfolded only further confirms in my mind that it's full steam ahead. Gorbachev's appearance from stage left only locks that notion in. I'm cognizant of the existence of white swans, but this is still a black swan (or vice versa).

30 years is considered the measure for a generation. 2015 will be 30 since the Gorbachev began "the final phase." It shouldn't surprise us that our enemy had this kind of time span in mind at the outset. Today, those 35 years old were age 15 when Gorbachev announced to the world on Christmas Day, 1991, that they give up, communism has failed, the Evil Empire is dead - peace on earth, good will toward man (aptly playing on our sentiments). Those 40 years old today were just entering adulthood (age 20) by that same time. But, it is unlikely that they have any full notion/experience of the former USSR; Gobachev commenced his perestroika & glasnost transformations when they were only 15. Therefore, only those today who are about age 50 and above have any real likelihood of having an appreciation and awareness of Russian duplicity and deceit. As far as professionals within our intelligence community are concerned, those around when Gorbachev first started out in 1985 are by now retired as are most of the old Cold Warriors. Al Quaida & Islamic terrorism has preoccupied and directed the post-Cold Warriors' attention elswhere for 10 years now.

2015, 30 years since Gorbachev began his long march, seems to be shaping-up to a key time frame (if not sooner) to turn things hot & direct against the West. It would be 3 years before the 100th anniversary of the birth of communism (1917), which may be ample time to wage war against the West and win.

Things might happen sooner, but I'm not trying to do predictions here. But, it seems the pace of world events are escalating toward world war and the world's economy seems to be on the verge of collapse. China has become a powerhouse with its military hardware might and shere numbers of hardcore trained military members (the training methods & dedication of the average PLA troop seems to equal our special forces or even exceed it). The combined strength of China & Russia alone could defeat us in convention warfare and depleted our treasure (not to mention our military members who are unlikely to be replaced with enough volunteers & certainly not from an emergency draft which would be resisted too long in the political realm & on the protest front). If they never went nuclear on us, would we unleash our nuclear aces on them? It's doubtful, even with a "conservative" in office.

Finally, that brings up another possibility that might only enhance our enemies' advantage: the re-election of BHO who would remain in office until 2016. He might be the reconciliation "VIP" guest at Red Square for the 100th anniversary - maybe then Lenin will be buried...since by then they had buried us.

(Pls excuse my smart phone single-finger typing errors.)

[Apollo5600]

WmWallace, on 19 December 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

You know I try to keep my mind open, too, and protect against developing a paranoid mindset about developments in the world re TFP. In fact I'm often battling others NWO, Truther, etc., beliefs and find it exasperating because of their dogged blinders where they see only black swans, never white ones. That last ref was re Jeff's classic article from a number of years ago (and can be found in a thread here in its entirety) titled, "Conspiracy Theories Are Not All Created Equal." The bottom line of that piece from my view was that your conspiracy theory is mere paranoid circular logic if you can not conceive of anything/circumstances/facts that could prove your theory invalid or false - falsifiable. In the instant case with what I believe is just another in a long line of deceptions going on, had there been no involvement by Gorbachev and circumstances had seemed to develop organically without the big name players, then I would look at this all differently and accept as a possibility what Jeff suggests in his latest article. But, circumstances as they have unfolded only further confirms in my mind that it's full steam ahead. Gorbachev's appearance from stage left only locks that notion in. I'm cognizant of the existence of white swans, but this is still a black swan (or vice versa). 30 years is considered the measure for a generation. 2015 will be 30 since the Gorbachev began "the final phase." It shouldn't surprise us that our enemy had this kind of time span in mind at the outset. Today, those 35 years old were age 15 when Gorbachev announced to the world on Christmas Day, 1991, that they give up, communism has failed, the Evil Empire is dead - peace on earth, good will toward man (aptly playing on our sentiments). Those 40 years old today were just entering adulthood (age 20) by that same time. But, it is unlikely that they have any full notion/experience of the former USSR; Gobachev commenced his perestroika & glasnost transformations when they were only 15. Therefore, only those today who are about age 50 and above have any real likelihood of having an appreciation and awareness of Russian duplicity and deceit. As far as professionals within our intelligence community are concerned, those around when Gorbachev first started out in 1985 are by now retired as are most of the old Cold Warriors. Al Quaida & Islamic terrorism has preoccupied and directed the post-Cold Warriors' attention elswhere for 10 years now. 2015, 30 years since Gorbachev began his long march, seems to be shaping-up to a key time frame (if not sooner) to turn things hot & direct against the West. It would be 3 years before the 100th anniversary of the birth of communism (1917), which may be ample time to wage war against the West and win. Things might happen sooner, but I'm not trying to do predictions here. But, it seems the pace of world events are escalating toward world war and the world's economy seems to be on the verge of collapse. China has become a powerhouse with its military hardware might and shere numbers of hardcore trained military members (the training methods & dedication of the average PLA troop seems to equal our special forces or even exceed it). The combined strength of China & Russia alone could defeat us in convention warfare and depleted our treasure (not to mention our military members who are unlikely to be replaced with enough volunteers & certainly not from an emergency draft which would be resisted too long in the political realm & on the protest front). If they never went nuclear on us, would we unleash our nuclear aces on them? It's doubtful, even with a "conservative" in office. Finally, that brings up another possibility that might only enhance our enemies' advantage: the re-election of BHO who would remain in office until 2016. He might be the reconciliation "VIP" guest at Red Square for the 100th anniversary - maybe then Lenin will be buried...since by then they had buried us. (Pls excuse my smart phone single-finger typing errors.)

Very good analysis!

[That One Guy]

WmWallace, on 19 December 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

You know I try to keep my mind open, too, and protect against developing a paranoid mindset about developments in the world re TFP. In fact I'm often battling others NWO, Truther, etc., beliefs and find it exasperating because of their dogged blinders where they see only black swans, never white ones. That last ref was re Jeff's classic article from a number of years ago (and can be found in a thread here in its entirety) titled, "Conspiracy Theories Are Not All Created Equal." The bottom line of that piece from my view was that your conspiracy theory is mere paranoid circular logic if you can not conceive of anything/circumstances/facts that could prove your theory invalid or false - falsifiable. In the instant case with what I believe is just another in a long line of deceptions going on, had there been no involvement by Gorbachev and circumstances had seemed to develop organically without the big name players, then I would look at this all differently and accept as a possibility what Jeff suggests in his latest article. But, circumstances as they have unfolded only further confirms in my mind that it's full steam ahead. Gorbachev's appearance from stage left only locks that notion in. I'm cognizant of the existence of white swans, but this is still a black swan (or vice versa). 30 years is considered the measure for a generation. 2015 will be 30 since the Gorbachev began "the final phase." It shouldn't surprise us that our enemy had this kind of time span in mind at the outset. Today, those 35 years old were age 15 when Gorbachev announced to the world on Christmas Day, 1991, that they give up, communism has failed, the Evil Empire is dead - peace on earth, good will toward man (aptly playing on our sentiments). Those 40 years old today were just entering adulthood (age 20) by that same time. But, it is unlikely that they have any full notion/experience of the former USSR; Gobachev commenced his perestroika & glasnost transformations when they were only 15. Therefore, only those today who are about age 50 and above have any real likelihood of having an appreciation and awareness of Russian duplicity and deceit. As far as professionals within our intelligence community are concerned, those around when Gorbachev first started out in 1985 are by now retired as are most of the old Cold Warriors. Al Quaida & Islamic terrorism has preoccupied and directed the post-Cold Warriors' attention elswhere for 10 years now. 2015, 30 years since Gorbachev began his long march, seems to be shaping-up to a key time frame (if not sooner) to turn things hot & direct against the West. It would be 3 years before the 100th anniversary of the birth of communism (1917), which may be ample time to wage war against the West and win. Things might happen sooner, but I'm not trying to do predictions here. But, it seems the pace of world events are escalating toward world war and the world's economy seems to be on the verge of collapse. China has become a powerhouse with its military hardware might and shere numbers of hardcore trained military members (the training methods & dedication of the average PLA troop seems to equal our special forces or even exceed it). The combined strength of China & Russia alone could defeat us in convention warfare and depleted our treasure (not to mention our military members who are unlikely to be replaced with enough volunteers & certainly not from an emergency draft which would be resisted too long in the political realm & on the protest front). If they never went nuclear on us, would we unleash our nuclear aces on them? It's doubtful, even with a "conservative" in office. Finally, that brings up another possibility that might only enhance our enemies' advantage: the re-election of BHO who would remain in office until 2016. He might be the reconciliation "VIP" guest at Red Square for the 100th anniversary - maybe then Lenin will be buried...since by then they had buried us. (Pls excuse my smart phone single-finger typing errors.)

2017 was on my list of predictions I kept to myself but strayed away from making it public as I'm not in that type of business and there's no way of being certain. The 2015 call is interesting as well. I don't have time to elaborate on my comments here at this moment but wanted to put it out there. I'll get back to this one later.

[WmWallace]

That One Guy, on 20 December 2011 - 02:12 AM, said:

2017 was on my list of predictions I kept to myself but strayed away from making it public as I'm not in that type of business and there's no way of being certain. The 2015 call is interesting as well. I don't have time to elaborate on my comments here at this moment but wanted to put it out there. I'll get back to this one later.

Yes, trying to predict the big one is futile (and basically useless). The point I was trying to get across, though, is that it is likely our enemies factored in that it would take about 30 years (a generation) of hibernation before commencing a hot war with us, time enough.for our old guard to fade away into retirement or the grave. Coincidentally, the 100th anniversary of communism happens to be right afterwards. The bigger point was to suggest that the planners foresaw & planned accordingly for their masses living under such openness and hence true democratic ideals, e.g., the election protests. But, seeing the recent protests as somehow an unexpected serious threat to their overall plan seems unlikely, esp when the protests seem to have been aided & abetted by the likes of Gorbachev himself. I'd like to be optimistic, but these set of circumstances don't make me optimistic whatsoever. It just seems clearly to be their main theme, new lies for old.

[907ie]

Pretty dang good for a smartphone, you don't want me to go there!
I agree with the analysis. We clearly underestimated the enemy timeline back in the late 90's to early 2000's.
It, the strike, had to be imminent, the Gore/Bush election pre-911 was a key, or was it? Stupidly, I took the Republican win as a "victory", a small one perhaps but one never the less.
Remember the nuclear top to bottom review with Rummy? Then Bush scraps the MX!
Contrast the current US position to the one back in 1990. Sure as hell gave it all away, the military and economic advantages were immense, but just a few "financial instruments" later here we are!
True, we were already being thoroughly hollowed out, and the political theater was overwhelming. Then Y2K was a non-event, and I brag that I did predict that at least.
Underestimated a bunch of things, but that is the thinking that goes with a shortened timeline.

[WmWallace]

907ie, on 20 December 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

Pretty dang good for a smartphone, you don't want me to go there!
I agree with the analysis. We clearly underestimated the enemy timeline back in the late 90's to early 2000's.
It, the strike, had to be imminent, the Gore/Bush election pre-911 was a key, or was it? Stupidly, I took the Republican win as a "victory", a small one perhaps but one never the less.
Remember the nuclear top to bottom review with Rummy? Then Bush scraps the MX!
Contrast the current US position to the one back in 1990. Sure as hell gave it all away, the military and economic advantages were immense, but just a few "financial instruments" later here we are!
True, we were already being thoroughly hollowed out, and the political theater was overwhelming. Then Y2K was a non-event, and I brag that I did predict that at least.
Underestimated a bunch of things, but that is the thinking that goes with a shortened timeline.

All so true!