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Advance over the "Red Line": NATO encircles Russia

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#1 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:35 AM

I had some spare time so I thought I would transcribe this thread over here.
All the usernames have been indicated in bold. Unfortunately only the first page is available. The rest I suppose are gone. Hope you like it.

Jay Adams

"If we presume the coming transformation of the Communist Party into the Russian Orthodox Party of the Soviet Union, we would obtain truly the ideal state, one which would fulfill the historical destiny of the Russian people. It is a question of the Orthodoxization of the entire world." - Gennadii Shimanov

From Alexander Yanov's "The Russian Challenge and the Year 2000" (1987)

If you want to understand modern day Russia and what the Ukraine Crisis is really all about, I strongly urge you to examine my hypothesis that Moscow did away with the false front of Communism to replace it with the front of "Orthodoxy", i.e., Russia's Orthodox Christian Church.

Bear in mind that the Kremlin, which is the focal point of Russian leadership, is a body of state political buildings and churches. In Tsarist Russia, order was kept by the dual authority of the State and the Church, the Tsar and the Patriarch. This is what Russia is returning to.

For instance, consider the new (as of 1993) State Emblem of Russia:
Posted Image
From - www.rf.boom.ru/eng.html

The double-headed eagle represents the combined power of the Orthodox Church and the Russian State/Tsar centered in Moscow. Also note the image of St. George slaying the dragon. This symbolizes the triumph of the Christian hero over evil.

See - www.hants.gov.uk/wallop/george.html

"And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him. And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the Salvation, and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ." - Revelation 12:9-10

The problem for us is that the megolamaniacs in Moscow consider the Jews and America as evil. We are the Satan they seek to slay. Israel is a focal point of their apocalyptic ambitions because their "Orthodox" view is that the Jews were responsible for the murder of Jesus and Russia's historical messianic calling is to punish them accordingly. America is considered a co-conspirator in the "Yid-Masonic" Zionist plan to destroy Russia and dominate the world.

With the Ukraine now about to fall to the evil, satanic West, one can only but presume the true militant, pseudo-religious, nationalistic, anti-Western character of Russia's current leadership is about to surface.

In a nutshell, the edifice of Communism has been removed and the "former" KGB has taken over the seats of political power in Russia.

See - www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13210

The secret police are being guided by this new nationalist ideology of "Orthodoxy" which seeks to return Russia to its spiritual roots and rebuild the organs of Church/State power centered in the Kremlin such that there is the dual leadership of the Czar (Russian dictator) and the Patriarch of the Orthodox church. If you have trouble perceiving this, I strongly urge you to listen to the report from NPR at:


    "The socialist tradition....goes back to Jesus Christ, not (Karl) Marx." - Mikhail Gorbachev, USA Today, October 28th, 1996 

"Communist ideology in its pure form is akin to Christianity. Its main ideas are the brotherhood of all peoples irrespective of their nationality, justice and equality, peace, and an end to all hostility between peoples." - from Gorbachev's book, 'Memoirs'

The excerpt below is from Reuters World Service, December 8, 1996, Sunday, BC cycle, "Vital Gorbachev refuses to let go of politics":

    (Gorbachev) is frank, though hardly contrite, about the failures of judgement that led him to promote to senior positions the very men who would plot to overthrow him in 1991.

    "How do you explain Judas -- right there next to Jesus Christ?" he asks. "How do you explain that? And Christ did not recognise him for what he was. You could say that's a metaphor."

Satan is in the world today, and he's seeking to use Christ's Church for world control with the Kremlin as his base of power.

Let's plot a coup my fellow Christians!

The article below is from - http://oag.ru/reports/advance.html
Which is posted at the site: "The Orthodox Anti-Globalist Resource Center: Dedicated to the struggle of the peoples of Russia, the Orthodox Christian world and the Eurasian continent against the totalitarian New World Order".


Advance over the "Red Line"

NATO's encirclement of Russia nears completion

By Vyacheslav Tetekin

Sovetskaya Rossiya

30 March 2004

Translated from the Russian

On Monday the 29th of March a meeting of heads of state of the NATO member countries will take place in Washington, at which the entries of Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia and Romania into that alliance will become official. An analogous ceremony of foreign ministers will take place at NATO headquarters in Brussels. This is an event of no small importance, immeasurably more significant for us than the terrorist acts in Spain and recent events in the Balkans and the Mideast. A military concentration of several million soldiers and officers, equipped with the latest military technology and espousing an aggressive, expansionist doctrine has now arrived at our borders.

Putin, who up to now has always regarded the approach of this armada with Olympian tranquillity and tried to sell us on the idea that NATO is 'neither friend nor foe, simply a fact of life' (but more of a friend after all), has suddenly shown signs of disquiet. Unprecented strategic "exercises" of the army and navy have begun. Even fuel has turned up: pilots are once again flying, ships are headed to sea and tanks to the training grounds. And when three submarine missile launches failed recently Putin's nervousness was visible.

Up to now he's also observed the open destruction of our armed forces with the same Olympian calm. We'll share some considerations on this subject with you a bit further on, but now let's refresh our memories regarding the recent history of NATO expansion. The first stage occurred five years ago. In the warm days of May, 1999, while NATO missiles were bombing Yugoslavia to smithereens, the alliance received new members Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic in a ceremony in Washington, amid fanfare and proclamations of the alliance's kindler, gentler image. (Later NATO General Secretary Javer Solana would be sentenced in absentia in a Belgrade court to 20 years imprisonment. For war crimes.)

At that time Russia at least tried to resist. A broken Yeltsin agreed to the alliance's absorption of three new members, but announced the existence of a certain "red line", beyond which NATO wouldn't be permitted to expand: that Russia would never allow the Baltic Republics and other former republics of the USSR to join NATO. And the West took this warning rather seriously. [Actually, I doubt the West ever took any of Yeltsin's warnings seriously, and the business about the "red line" was pure bluff on his part. -- Editor]

'Pro-western' Yeltsin has left the political stage, replaced by 'patriot' Putin. But already by October 2001, when I was in Finland as a member of a political delegation, our Finnish partners asked me in bewilderment: "Does Putin understand what he's doing? You see, he's not only agreed to the entry of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia into NATO, but is factually driving neutral countries into the alliance too." Indeed, Putin's announcement (regarding the Baltics) that each country has the right to choose how to provide for its security was 'correctly' understood in the West. For them, this was proof that the "red line" had been forgotten, and that the president now wouldn't refuse to raise a champagne glass and drink to NATO's health.

A lot of champagne has been drunk since. Western missionaries with their centuries-old colonial experience have skillfully enticed our leaders with baubles, sermons and audiences with the Queen of England. Then we saw how right in the wake of the missionaries followed businessmen ready to seize Russia's riches and, behind them, soldiers to guarantee the safety of the riches seized by the businessmen. Now they've broken the news to the leader that he's no longer really in charge.

So he's begun to stir. But what's done is done. The poison ivy of NATO "friendship" is now in full bloom. NATO now has innumerable friends in Moscow, who've made a specialty (and not a shabby source of income) out of persuading us that NATO presents no threat to Russia. And they're aided by those Russian officials with their endless journeys to Brussels for fruitless sessions of the Russia-NATO Commission.

These get-togethers do nothing for Russia's interests (excluding rather tidy travel expenses for our bureaucrats). But they do a lot to shroud the danger emanating from NATO in a thick cloud of fog. In the Foreign Ministry of the RF there's as before no shortage of those ready to vouch for NATO's harmlessness. Even the Defense Ministry expresses itself more than ambivalently on this matter. On the one hand, the NATO danger is simply bursting through the cracks by now, and is impossible to hide. On the other hand, our generals and their valiant minister Mr. Ivanov really enjoy their trips to Brussels.

What's taking place in fact behind the smokescreen of rhetoric about partnership between Russia and NATO? Here are some news items from just the last few days. On one former Soviet airfield in Lithuania F-16 fighter-bombers will soon be taking off. In answer to the Russian ambassador's feeble protest the Lithuanian minister announced that Lithuania is no longer interested in Moscow's opinion about how she should ensure her security. To bring the point home they threw three Russian diplomats out of their country. Moscow swallowed this all in silence, which only convinced the Lithuanians how right they were not to take Moscow's warnings seriously. Then Estonia followed suit by throwing out two of our diplomats. These countries are not even bothering to hide their hostility towards Russia any more.

At the same time, the Ukrainian parliament has ratified a Memorandum of Understanding between the Ukraine and NATO granting NATO quick access rights to the territory of their "independent" republic. NATO units can now travel throughout the Ukraine practically unhindered. Thus NATO forces have factually received access to Russia's borders. If necessary they can easily block the main base of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol. The NATO commanders have enormous experience with quick deployment. They've been doing training exercises in the Ukraine for eight years. And Moscow has kept silent the whole time.

NATO forces in the Baltics and Ukraine threaten the European part of Russia. And the threat is enormous, for instead of the once-mighty Soviet strategic defense system from the Barents to the Black Seas we now have a gaping hole. Over this whole colossal territory we've not one battle-capable army. The situation is much worse than it was on June 22, 1941. Then our retreating forces inflicted such heavy losses on the fascists that the Wermacht was already reeling by the Winter of '41. Today we've got no one capable of putting up a resistance on that front.

Now let's consider the Caucasus, the gateway to Russia's southern regions. Georgia has already turned into a US protectorate, where American soldiers can do as they please. [It's now an open secret that Georgia is run from the US Embassy in Tbilisi. -- Editor] Now the USA is conducting active negotiations for the deployment of their forces in Azerbaijan. Baku is literally crawling with their military delegations, who don't even hide their intention to force Azerbaijan to agree to a 'temporary' deployment of mobile US units there. At the same time former Soviet aerodromes at Kurdamir, Nasosny and Gala are being studied for suitability for the US Air Force. The Americans openly declare that the Caspian is now a zone of US national interests and America is ready to help "guarantee security" in that region.

In the southeastern direction (Central Asia) NATO member countries have already built air bases and it appears they're there for good. At any rate, in answer to the Russian leadership's hints that it might be time to go home, the Americans and their allies declare that they have no intention of going anywhere. Meanwhile, the Tadjiks are refusing the participation of our border guards in guarding the Afghan border (through which colossal quantities of heroin flow into Russia and on to Europe). Negotiations for the creation of Russian bases drag on. The famous 201st Division, one of the best-trained in the Russian army, is degrading quickly. It's being moved from its well lived-in base to an unprepared location. Soon nothing will remain of its combat capability. And in general, it's preparing to switch allegiance to the president of Tadjikistan. So in this direction, too, we see no one able to defend Russian interests.

In this fashion, a NATO invasion of Russia turns from a theoretical threat to a perfectly real possibility. Large-scale preparations for intervention are going full-steam ahead. And now the multitudes of intelligence colonels and generals in and around the Kremlin have suddenly seen this threat lurking under their noses. And they've begun to wake up.

Our newspaper has already published the work of the Norwegian Institute for Defense Research, in which a scenario for the first wave of a NATO invasion of Russia is described frankly and in detail, along with a list of clearly-defined pretexts which would justify such an intervention. The noose around Russia's neck is slowly tightening. And our Russian commanders continue their journeys to Brussels where they're flattered by their NATO colleagues with false assurances of eternal friendship with Russia. Meanwhile, the number of NATO reconnaisance flights along our borders continues to increase. One more proof of their friendship?

But maybe we're not understanding the essence of NATO correctly? Maybe its expansion is directed at completely different ends? Let's examine the situation from this angle. In recent years the the alliance has spoken much of its preparation to meet "new challenges and threats", including those of international terror and the drug trade. But the conflict in Kosovo has shown just how far NATO's deeds are from its words. Having in its possession 45 000 soldiers in Kosovo, NATO's done nothing to prevent the province from becoming Europe's main center of drug trafficking. The Albanian drug mafia is flourishing under the factual patronage of NATO. And the connections between the Albanian terrorists and Osama ben Laden have been written about extensively in recent years. And what of it? And nothing of it!

Afghanistan is now under NATO control. Heroin deliveries from that country to Russia and Europe have grown many times over. And this has all happened after the overthrow of the Taliban regime (which forbade opium cultivation) and the arrival of American forces, along with their NATO allies. So where's the evidence that NATO is battling terrorism and drugs? There is none!

So the NATO military machine is relentlessly approaching Russia's borders. We remind you that there are now 3,7 million NATO soldiers and officers in uniform. With the addition of Eastern Europe NATO receives an additional 227 000 soldiers and officers, 5 000 tanks, 150 aerodromes and 500 warplanes. Who is this enormous force directed against?

With Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, NATO receives 25 air force bases close to Russia's borders. The most important aerodromes are Lielvarde and Tukums in Latvia, Karmelava and Panevezhis in Lithuania and Emari in Estonia. They've already been equipped to accomodate NATO strike aviation: airstrips have been lengthened, taxi areas widened, and powerful radar capable of monitoring the skies of Russia has been installed. AWACS reconnaisance planes are already patrolling our borders. From the Baltic States NATO can strike 1 600 kilometers into Russian territory.

The alliance receives a network of naval bases and ports, too: in Latvia: Liepaia, Ust-Dvinsk, Riga and Ventspils; in Lithuania: Klaipeda; in Estonia: Paldiski, Tallinn and Muuga. Preparations are underway for the basing of NATO warships there, and reception and warehousing of military stockpiles. For several years USA marine landing exercises have been taking place. What international terrorists are NATO planning to do battle with in this sleepy corner of Europe? You see, besides the Chechen bandits being warmed by Lithuania's leaders, there's no hint of any "extremism" there. [The website of the Chechen rebels, www.kavkaz.org, is based in Vilnius, Lithuania, and enjoys the protection a member of the Lithuanian parliament. Poland and the Baltic States are well-known havens for the dukhi, who're never refused entry there. -- Editor] All these preparations and huge expenditures make sense only in one case: if they're directed against Russia!

So Putin has suddenly gotten nervous and begun to concern himself with the battle-readiness of the Russian army. And he's very right to do so. The West harbors no gratitude towards Putin for his services in destroying the geopolitical legacy of the USSR. They're demanding new concessions. And to add insult to injury, it turns out that NATO and other "friendly" organizations are now preparing a "Chechnya war crimes" dossier. In which one of the main villians could well be Putin himself. [Putin would never have been installed in power by the masters of the "New World Order" if he weren't blackmailable. The "juiciest" materials in his dossier of "kompromat" (that's Russian for "compromising materials") are the "engineered war" in Chechnya, and the accompanying explosions of apartment buildings in Moscow, Volgodonsk and other cities, all allegedly carried out by Russian intelligence with the purpose of boosting Putin's popularity rating. -- Editor] So NATO will have yet another pretext for intervention and the necessity for putting Putin on trial for Chechnya. And he knows this.

NATO expansion is not merely the biggest military threat to Russia since 1941. It's our biggest foreign policy defeat since before Peter the Great. In comparison with it, our defeats in the Russo-Japanese and Crimean wars were simply regrettable trifles. If the fire in the manege on the night of Putin's electoral "triumph" was a harbinger of our domestic woes, this latest stage of NATO expansion is a grim warning of our ripening foreign policy catastrophe.

Vyacheslav Tetekin.

#2 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:36 AM

I want to make a note here.

The double headed eagle was stolen / adopted by the Russians from the Hapsburgs. The Hapsburg coat of arms represented the dual monarchy. Dual in the sense of sharing power with the Roman Catholic Church, dual in the sense of spanning from the traditionally Roman sections of Western Europe to the Roman Catholic sections of SE Europe, etc. Just in front of the main old winter palace in central Vienna, one finds Roman ruins. The foundations of the Cathedral in Salzburg are the remnents of an old Roman country gentleman's estate. The Hapsburgs are ever so symbolic of the Western Tradition, of defenses against Huns, Mongols and Turks, and of the core of Europe.

On a sad note, whereas the Czars abdicated to allow Karensky to come into power and whereas the Kaiser's family fled to Holland, at the close of WW2, the Hapsburgs simply faded away. They had been losing power for 150 years at that point and by 1900 or so, most people in the Austro-Hungarian Empire (nee Holy Roman Empire) hated the monarchy and were increasingly pan Germanic or pan Slavic, anti Semitic, and anti traditionalist in the political sense. The withering of the Hapsburgs, to me, is probably the single most important factor leading to the disasters of Europe since 1840. Is it mere coincidence, that this new, false "monarchy" in Russia, so prominently features a symbol, of not only Czars, but also, of the old stabilizing, Western, Roman Catholic, Jew friendly, Hapsburgs?

All I can say is, what a sick farce. Putin is pure evil incarnate!


#3 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:37 AM

Jay Adams


Russia's state emblem was ontroduced in 1497.

Hapsburg empire from 1438:


#4 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:38 AM

Jay Adams
Putin warns West against sowing division in Ukraine
AFP: 12/6/2004

MOSCOW, Dec 6 (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin warned the West Monday against attempts to sow divisions in Ukraine and elsewhere in the former Soviet Union, describing such efforts as "counterproductive" and destabilizing, Russian news agencies quoted him as saying on visit to Turkey.

"I do not want to see a situation like in Germany where it was divided between 'the West' and 'the East', into first- and second-class citizens," Interfax news agency quoted Putin as telling Russian journalists in Ankara.

"The first-class people get to live under stable, democratic law while people of the so-called dark political color are being dictated to by a kind but strict uncle ... and if they don't obey, then they will be beaten with a rocket and missile club, as happened in Belgrade," Putin said.

12/06/2004 13:57 GMT - AFP


#5 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:39 AM

The article above seems to reflect claassic Sun Tzu - when you are strong feign weakness, draw your enemy in, etc.

If NATO (read USA) invades Russia, will we not have our nukes at the ready? I don't think guys will be reading Tom Clancy novels while sitting at their control panels if we make such a move.

So, say we do invade and conquer Russia...isn't Israel supposed to beat back Gog and Magog?

I'm not really refuting anyone's ideas, just asking some questions.

#6 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:39 AM

Jay Adams
NATO is not going to invade Russia. The virtiolic drivel above is the mentality of the Kremlin. Historical forces have been set in motion to justify what they were planning to do anyways, blow us to Kingdom come with a mass nuclear missile attack. One issue to consider here is how most of the "former"-Soviet military is now shielded from destruction because it is located in areas today considered pro-Western. The military forces in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet States not including Russia are effectively safe from being targetted by U.S. nuclear counterstrikes once WW3 is underway. Everything has come down to a conflict between Mother Russia and the West. Now....throw in the idea that some madman takes control of Russia through a coup, e.g., Vladimir Zhirinovsky, and pushes the button, and the nuclear counter-strikes against Russia will likely be limited to remaining defunct military targets that are thoroughly prepared to suffer minimum effective damage (i.e., through decoys, camouflage, etc. the U.S. will be misled such that our counterstrikes are minimally effective.


#7 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:40 AM

Jay Adams
Churches split in Ukraine crisis

Yanukovych is backed by the pro-Russian Orthodox Church.

Ukraine's disputed presidential elections and descent into political crisis have been tinged with religious symbolism.
The divided churches reflect the "schisms" in Ukrainian society "between those looking to the West and those looking to the East," according to Felix Corley, a specialist in Orthodox Church affairs.


#8 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:41 AM

Jay Adams
NATO Set to Downgrade Ukraine Meet -- Diplomats

45 minutes ago World - Reuters

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - NATO (news - web sites) is set to cancel a meeting of its foreign ministers with the Ukrainian foreign minister scheduled for Thursday to avoid high-level contacts with a government accused of election fraud, diplomats said.

"There is no consensus for the meeting to go ahead. There might be a meeting at the ambassadorial level instead," said one NATO diplomat who declined to be identified.

"There is the view that sitting down with the Ukrainian minister would send out the wrong message, both to our publics and to the Ukrainian public," a second envoy said.

Ambassadors of the 26-member alliance were due to make a final decision later on Wednesday.

No end to Ukraine's political crisis was in sight on Wednesday after the collapse of a deal intended to smooth a re-run of elections annulled because of rigging by authorities to hand power to Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovitch.

Foreign ministers of NATO, including Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites), had been due to meet their Ukrainian counterpart, Kostyantyn Gryshchenko, at the end of the alliance's annual ministerial meeting in Brussels.

A clash between Russia and the West, with mutual accusations of interference in Ukraine, dominated a ministerial meeting of the Organization for Security and Cooperation (news - web sites) in Europe in Sofia on Tuesday, preventing agreement on a final communique.

NATO formed a partnership pact with Kiev in 1997 and has cooperated with Ukraine in international peace-support missions. The partnership charter recognizes "the importance of an independent, stable and democratic Ukraine to European stability."


#9 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:44 AM

Jay Adams

The first stone of the first-ever Russian Orthodox church to be built in Cuba was laid Sunday. Metropolitan Kirill, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church’s foreign relations department said the church will constitute “a monument to Cuban-Russian friendship”, Associated Press reports.

First Stone of First Russian Orthodox Church Laid in Cuba


The domes, which later disappeared, will be rebuilt with the original features regardless of budget.

Harbin to rebuild Orthodox church


The biggest coal enterprise of the republic Bogatyr Access Komir participated in construction of this cathedral and this year allocated 2 million tenge for landscaping and planting of the territory around the cathedral.

Russian Orthodox Church to award director general of Bogatyr Access Komir


GROZNY, December 6 (Itar-Tass) - Scaffolding has been put up to hide from view Chechnya’s only Russian Orthodox church in Grozny: the church of St. Michael the Archangel (Russian: Mikhail, as in Gorbachev?) was badly damaged in the course of military actions a few years ago and is in need of restoration.

Restoration begins of Chechnya’s only Russian Orthodox church


"During communism," he said, "the Soviet intellectuals used to say, 'There was a wonderful church here, and now there's a metro and swimming pool.' And after some time, the intellectuals will say, 'You know there used to be a wonderful swimming pool here, and now the new bosses have built a church."'

Moscow evokes 19th century glory by rebuilding cathedral Stalin destroyed


#10 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:44 AM

S Seech

From the first post, that piece of communist propaganda, I found this

"The famous 201st Division, one of the best-trained in the Russian army, is degrading quickly. It's being moved from its well lived-in base to an unprepared location. Soon nothing will remain of its combat capability. And in general, it's preparing to switch allegiance to the president of Tadjikistan. So in this direction, too, we see no one able to defend Russian interests."

That division is not moving away from Russia to switch allegiance, it is moving away to escape nuclear destruction so it can better serve Russia after the nuclear exchanges. Better for a division to survive in another country and serve you later than be burned alive.

Oh, and I think the idea of us invading Russia is hilarious. Although I wish it would happen, better for us to strike first, the attacker always has an advantage.

#11 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:45 AM

Jay Adams
Exactly correct.

What has happened over the past fifteen years is a gradual dispersion of Russian armed forces to minimize America's ability to target and destroy those forces during the very short time in which a nuclear war is fought. What's more, it's occurred in a manner that inflates the West's false sense of security to a grandiose delusional extreme allowing for maximum strategic surprise upon launching an attack.

The West saw the breakup of the Soviet Union as winning the Cold War; to Kremlin military planners the breakup was protecting satellite territories and the forces there from American and NATO nuclear destruction for the future world war.

#12 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:46 AM

Jay Adams
t's important that particpants here in TFP recognize the potential accuracy of my thesis that Russia did away with Communism to replace it with Orthodoxy.

This transformation is the most dangerous development for the free world since the rise of Nazism before World War II, except in this case we are being misled into World War III.

#13 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:47 AM

Jay Adams

Zhirinovsky on Religion in Russia




Rebuilding Russian Orthodoxy


Kiev, Ukraine's capital, was the birthplace of the Russian state and Russian Orthodox Church.


#14 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:48 AM

Jay Adams


The fact is that Middle-Earth, the region where most Orthodox Christians live, is to be crucified. The Church of Christ has to be persecuted from the West by fanatical Materialists, and persecuted from the East by fanatical Islamists. The spiritual balance provided by the Orthodox Church has to be destroyed - so that Antichrist can be enthroned on Sion, in the Holy City of Jerusalem. It was so 800 years ago in the Christian capital of Constantinople, when it was menaced by Muslims and sacked by Catholics. It was so in Russia under St Alexander Nevsky, who fought off the Teutonic Knights of the Vatican, but also played diplomacy with the Tartars. Threats from East and West have always been, and will always be.

#15 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:49 AM


From Opinion Journal, the Wall St Journal editorial pages. Corroborates some issues Mr Adams has raised regarding Yushchenko and orthodoxy.


#16 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:50 AM

Jay Adams

Very interesting read. Thank you.

A leader of Kiev's Jewish community, Anatoly Shyhai, has told pro-Yushchenko protesters that Jews see the Ukrainian state as "an independent, democratic and European country at the apex of rights and interfaith amity."

This tacitly implies that Yushchenko is NOT truly Orthodox in contrast to his purportedly converted opponent. It will be intriguing, and maybe horrifying, how this all plays out. The term "Orthodoxy" may someday trump the term "Nazism".

#17 Guest_LaissezFairTFPer_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 03:51 AM


Look what Putin is promising that little grease ball.


Russia will start paying its debts to Germany in 2005, German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said on Tuesday.

Speaking at a press conference after negotiations with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in Germany, Schroeder said that “the payment of debts will be carried out ahead of schedule.”

Putin confirmed the chancellor’s words and said Germany will give Russia a reduction.

Speaking on the sale of Yukos subsidiary, Yuganskneftegaz, Schroeder called it “Russia’s interior affair” and said all attempts to move this issue to the Russian-German relations will fail.

German chancellor spoke also on future Ukrainian presidential elections that will take place on December 26. He said both Russia and Germany want those elections to pass without any interference from the outside. “We both think that the Ukrainians have the right to elect their own president. The results of December 26 elections must be respected by everyone,” he said.

Putin started off his two-day visit to Germany with a hint of a “big Christmas present” in the form of repaying Russia’s foreign debt, and told Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder he was open to suggestions on Chechnya.

Schroeder praised economic relations between the two countries. “Relations in the economic sphere between Germany and Russia have been extremely good and it should stay that way,” he told reporters. “We have to build them up in the energy sector but not just in the energy sector.”

#18 Guest_J. Adams_*

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 07:05 PM

Thanks LaissezFaire for this thorough repost of the "Russian Orthodoxy: The Great Transformation" thread!

Notably, it is my belief that this post, along with the thread "Putin, the Tsar, and the Russian Orthodox Church" and the thread on the KGB-manufactured "National Bolshevik Party" are what pressed the buttons in Moscow that led to the deletion of the TFP forum. But then again, I'm just a paranoid conspiracy theorist anyways!

Nevertheless, if this hypothesis on what Russia is up to is correct, and the KGB/FSB doesn't want the cat to get out of the bag, it's just great that this thread is the first to be revived in our new forum!

Truth always overcomes lies and light always overcomes darkness...

#19 Guest_J. Adams_*

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 04:06 PM

From - http://www.themoscow.../06/10/002.html

Friday, June 10, 2005. Issue 3185. Page 1.

Evangelical Christians Fight for a Church

By Stephen Boykewich
Staff Writer
Moscow Times

Mieke Woestenburg / For MT

Police officers approaching a rally of Emmanuel members on Tverskaya Ploshchad on June 2. They broke up the gathering and detained Alexander Purshaga.

Dozens of evangelical believers stood stunned on Tverskaya Ploshchad across from City Hall, their protest banners lying in police vans, their pastor being carted off to a holding cell.

"This time it was pretty," Yelena Purshaga said last Thursday. Her husband, Alexander Purshaga, is the pastor of the Emmanuel church.

"You should have seen the way it was yesterday," she said on June 2.

The church had sought -- and thought it received -- permission to hold a weeklong demonstration across from City Hall over the loss of land that it had hoped to use to build a house of worship.

But on May 30 and June 1, police and OMON special forces violently broke up the demonstrations, throwing women and children to the ground and swearing at them, parishioners said. One of them, Marina Karandayeva, raised her sleeve to show an ugly ring of bruises around her arm.

For Emmanuel's believers, it was the latest indignity in a decade-long struggle to build a church for their 1,000-member Moscow parish. For some religious liberty organizations, it was further evidence of a mounting, and in some cases violent, trend to persecute Protestant religious minorities.

In mid-May, a group of young men stormed into the Moscow office of the Russian Church of Christians of Evangelical Faith, a main umbrella organization for evangelical churches in Russia, and announced that they had been sent to "beat sectarians."

At about the same time, Perm regional authorities said they wanted to buy back a former palace of culture building that had been sold to an evangelical church -- a decision that came after the church was criticized by the local Russian Orthodox bishop, the mayor of Perm and city legislators. A Baptist home church went up in flames in an apparent arson attack in the Moscow region town of Lyubuchany in September.

Emmanuel's saga began in 1994, when it applied for land to build a church in Moscow. Protestant church membership was growing rapidly at the time, thanks in part to a 1991 law on religious organizations that has since become far more restrictive.

In 1996, the church was granted a plot on Prospekt Vernadskogo, and spent "many millions of rubles" over the next few years preparing the project, said Alexander Purshaga, who is both Emmanuel's chief pastor and president of the Russian Assemblies of God, an organization that includes 38 other parishes nationwide.

But when the Moscow parish was ready to start construction in 1999, authorities in the local administrative district said that residents opposed the project.

"We went out to collect signatures," Yelena Purshaga said. "We did everything by the book: last names, addresses, passport numbers. People knew us because of the charity work we had done with orphans and veterans. Out of the 10,000 people we asked, 6,000 said they weren't against construction."

The church was then abruptly told that the land had been previously promised to the city government for public use, Alexander Purshaga said.

Over the next five years, a series of alternative sites were offered to the church and retracted for various reasons. In 2003, Emmanuel managed to buy a house of culture on Ulitsa Bogdanova in southwest Moscow but was later denied permission to renovate it.

Lawrence Uzzell, president of International Religious Freedom Watch, said Emmanuel was far from alone in its plight. "Securing a meeting space is probably the most common type of problem that Protestant organizations in Russia have," Uzzell said.

Protestant churches throughout Russia have complained that owners of theaters and former cultural palaces have refused to let them rent rooms for religious services because of the opposition of local Orthodox priests or bishops, he said.

"In effect, Orthodox clergy were being given veto power over their competitors," Uzzell said.

Russian Orthodox Patriarch Alexy II's chief spokesman, Mikhail Moiseyev, denied such practices.

Regarding Emmanuel's difficulties, he said: "Construction in Moscow is a problem for everyone. If in this case there are problems, it's by no means connected to the Orthodox Church."

He noted, however, that "more than once the most holy patriarch has expressed the idea that the activities of many religious groups -- evangelists, neo-charismatics, pentacostals, whatever they call themselves -- have absolutely no historical tradition beneath them and are alien to Russian spiritual life."

Emmanuel's members disagree. Protestants have been active throughout territory of the former Soviet Union for over a century. The Russian Assemblies of God have been registered in the country since 1933, and the families of both Purshagas have worshiped in evangelical churches for generations.

"They ask us who our foreign sponsors are," Yelena Purshaga said. "They say we've come from America to bring a democratic revolution. We don't want anything of the kind. All we want is the land they promised us."

Last month, they decided they had waited long enough.

Emmanuel first held a rally of about 1,500 people on Pushkin Square on May 22. The church also filed for permission to hold a week of protests on Tverskaya Ploshchad. Alexander Purshaga said city authorities never contacted them to reject the request or to notify the church about a change in location within the three days required by law.

When parishioners gathered on Tverskaya Ploshchad on May 30, "the police came and asked to see our papers. We showed them, and everything was fine," Purshaga said. "But on Tuesday, no one asked who we were, whether it was legal or not. They started tearing our posters down and grabbing women and pensioners."

The police department for the central administrative district has since produced a document dated May 26 -- three days after the legal deadline -- changing the rallies' location to Pushkin Square.

"They were not granted permission to demonstrate on Tverskaya Ploshchad. Therefore, the demonstration was unsanctioned," police spokeswoman Yelena Perfilova said.

Regarding parishioners' complaints of police force, she said, "The use of excessive force is forbidden by law."

Alexander Purshaga argued that the May 26 document had no legal force because it had been issued well after the three-day deadline had expired. "This was a provocation," he said.

His argument held little sway in court hearings this week. Several Emmanuel members were fined 500 to 1,000 rubles on charges of participating in an unsanctioned demonstration. Ilya Astafyev, an evangelical pastor who came from St. Petersburg to support the protest, was denied a petition for legal representation on Tuesday and sentenced to five days in jail. On Wednesday, Alexander Purshaga also received a sentence of five days in jail.

City authorities insisted that no one was targeting Protestant believers. "Moscow is a very crowded city," said Andrei Parnov, the spokesman for Deputy Mayor Mikhail Men. "About 400 other religious organizations are now in a similar situation of waiting for land.

"These kinds of churches shouldn't be in a hurry," he said.

#20 bm_cali



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Posted 10 June 2005 - 04:38 PM

I've been in some interesting exchanges over at Free Republic over the past few days.

There was one thread that was exactly about what is described in the posts above in this thread here.

I was debating some Russian Orthodox folks - split about evenly between those who "inherited" their faith and those who had converted. The converts are the worst - and if my sampling of them from my debates is any indication, most of the (typically, former WASP or white anglo saxon atheist) converts are, well, to put it bluntly, not the sharpest tools in the shed. But I digress.

I had one guy who wrote "there is nothing wrong with pan Slavism" and I could just imagine Hannah Arendt turning in her grave. One other guy, who I believe to be an ethnic Greek American, but one who for whatever reason (I suspect, the whole Kosovo debacle), might as well be Russian, based on his world view, wrote something to the effect of "the West, lock, stock and barrel, has gone over to evil, and when the anti Christ comes, Russia will be the chosen land and will destroy the followers of evil" etc. The overt statement of Russian messainism, and "Third Rome" mentality in the case of that particular individual was striking.

I know quite abit about all this, because my own family comes, in part, from a Tsarist, Orthodox background (one grandparent). It's almost as if these modern followers of all this stuff simply have no clue regarding all the additional baggage that comes along with it. They fail to comprehend just how disfunctional the leadership structure of Russia had become on the eve of the Revolution. For sure, I blame the Bolsheviks for a lot - they killed a certain percentage of my own family (as did the Nazis a whole other percentage). But without the dark side of the degenerated monarchy, the Bolsheviks would not have had the opportunity. And that's the thing I find shocking - all these modern would be "Orthodoxists" are utterly blind to the dark side which existed during the latter years of the Russian monarchy. They have this romantic notion of it that is 100% false. What a complete scam!

All I can do is sit back and watch the oncoming disaster.....

I have a very unique perspective. I understand this stuff due to my own family history. However, due to successful assimilation, my own cultural outlook is 100% WASP. That's what's most frightening to me - to see WASPs who have found Orthodoxy and pan Slavism (and TBD, neo Stalinism) attractive. I just can't understand how someone could turn their back on the greatest Civilization the world has ever known (that is, Magna Cartian Civlilzation), and embrace something so foul .... well, actually, I can. We've been warned of it repeatedly through the ages.